2015年6月28日星期日

主旨: 給特區的信(159)-兜兜轉轉(2)





---------- 轉寄的郵件 ----------
寄件者: George Luk 
日期: 2015年6月13日 下午7:51
主旨: 給特區的信(159)-兜兜轉轉(2)
收件者: "Mr. Li Wei" <drc@drc.gov.cn>, "Mr. C Y Leung" <ceo@ceo.gov.hk>
副本: "hd@1823.gov.hk" <hd@1823.gov.hk>, "Mr. Anthony Cheung" <sthoffice@thb.gov.hk>, "Mr. TANG Kwok Wai" <scsoffice@csb.gov.hk>, "Mr. Tsang Tak Sing" <sha@hab.gov.hk>, "Ms. TENG Yu Yan" <doe@had.gov.hk>, George1 Luk 

李偉先生/梁振英先生:

1. 附件中有11年前給北京及特區政府的建議、批評及觀察,部份前立會成員及官員應收到過。没有特別意思,只是想大家明白,「溝通」和「互信」並不能「臨急抱佛脚」,須要時間去建立。

2. 下面的一封,主要是提醒大家,政府不是隨便接收了便算數,因為觀察到官員及高級公務員有盡力爭取。幾年前的地緣政治形勢跟當下的分別、南海問題、TPP(跨太平洋戰略經濟夥伴關係協議)、「一帶一路」計劃、中國跟APEC國家,特別是拉丁美洲國家的關係大幅改善之下,引起美、日及部份歐洲國家的緊張,形勢外弛內張,可能是北京比較看緊此次「2017選舉特首」的原因。

3. 另一方面就是大陸的GDP(Nominal),由2000年的約12,050億極速增長至去年約103,600億美元,令很多貿易大國感到憂慮。希望大家可以理解北京的困難。

Regards,

George Luk



---------- 轉寄的郵件 ----------

寄件者: <ceo@ceo.gov.hk>
日期: 2015414日 下午5:42
主旨: Re: 給特區的信(148)- 回顧一下過去的電郵(8) :香港的長遠規
劃及行動(13)- 急需解決的問題
收件者: George Luk

George:

4
4日致行政長官的電郵,我獲授權認收,謝謝。
行政長官私人秘書
(
麥佩儀 代行)


From:        George Luk
To:        "Mr. Li Wei" <drc@drc.gov.cn>, "Mr. C Y Leung" <ceo@ceo.gov.hk>,
Cc:        "hd@1823.gov.hk" <hd@1823.gov.hk>, "Mr. Anthony Cheung" <sthoffice@thb.gov.hk>, "Mr. TANG Kwok Wai" <scsoffice@csb.gov.hk>, "Mr. Tsang Tak Sing" <sha@hab.gov.hk>, "Ms. TENG Yu Yan" <doe@had.gov.hk>, George1 Luk
Date:        04/04/2015 12:05 PM
Subject:        
給特區的信(148)- 回顧一下過去的電郵(8) :香港的長遠規劃及行動(13)- 急需解決的問題 


李偉先生/梁振英先生:

1. 請重温以下當年的電郵:

---------- 轉寄的郵件 ----------寄件者: CEO <ceo@ceo.gov.hk>日期: 2011114日 下午9:00
主旨: Re: 香港的長遠規劃及行動(13)- 急需解決的問題
收件者: George Luk <gl2468@gmail.com>

George Luk 先生:

1027日致行政長官的電郵,我獲授權認收,內容備悉。

行政長官私人秘書
(
姚一風 代行)


----- Original Message -----
From:  George Luk
Sent:  Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: 香港的長遠規劃及行動(13)- 急需解決的問題

Dear Messrs. Li/Tsang,

相信目前最急需解決的問題,是如何在2017年順利過渡到民選的特首及其管治班子(一直以來,人們都認為特首應是指他及其代表的整個管治團隊)

大前題是現時的實際情況:-泛民各派系與北京、隣近省、市政府,本地公務員及建制各派及商界的關係,不能否認是差了一點(很多時候,甚至可以說是各走極端,常常對着幹):

(1)怎樣制訂所有各黨派都滿意的提名機制,才不會事後,落選人士再提不同意見及反抗聲音,輸打贏要呢?

(2)若然泛民以極少數的多數票當選,北京一定要跟從選舉制度,委任這個人為特首。因為全世界都覺得那是理所當然,否則便不是民主選舉。

(3)那麼管治班子人選,包括各司、局長,將會是由當選的特首提名,按基本法由中央任命。另外副局長、政治助理、各司、局長辦公室主任、中央政策組及行會成員也將由新特首委任。若北京否決部份提名,改由北京選派其他有能之士取而代之的話,那便會被本地及外國的所謂民主人士,認為是借故令新特區政府難以施行其政策。

(4)由於與其他黨派、公務員、各地(省、區、市、鎮等地方)政府及北京中央各部委的關係不太融洽;相信難以以幾十人之力,統率十多、廿萬公務員(包括紀律部隊)及政府資助機構員工。相信會變成名副其實的跛腳鴨政府,不消兩個月便跨台。

(5)激裂抗爭,遊行示威,議會內每有提案,定必反對,打拉布戰,粗言惡相,這些所謂出位舉動,並非某些人的專利;到時反對派及其支持者(數目可能比目前的泛民多得多),亦會採取相同的反對手法,更出位的情況也未可料。

(6)到時投資者撤出,經濟下滑,失業大軍大增,資產價格下跌。那時民意很快便會逆轉,而傳媒亦可能以編輯自主為由,大加抨擊。將會是親者痛,仇者快;非港人之福。亦令數千萬海外華僑心痛,因為他們大多數以香港為唐山。

(7)但决不能因而拖慢本地及全國的民主進程,必須以最短時間,去改善各方之間的關係。

(8)但如中東、非洲、高加索地區、前南斯拉夫地區、甚至現時經濟極差的西歐等等;派系之間;種族之間;新移民與原居民;擁有居留權與未有居留權的;99%與1%之間,並非短時間兩、三年可以解決。

(9)但要落實民主、自由、平等、公義、人權、法治,亦是絶不能拖延的。5年時間,希望各方能同心協力去走好這步棋。

(10)其實現屆、下屆特區政府、北京及週邊地區政府,泛民各派系,及所有關心香港的人士,亦應大力加以協調。希望能大大減低2017及其後的普選所帶來對香港、大珠三角及全中國的影響。

Regards,

George Luk

 2. 實際上過去幾年,上述情況:[大前題是現時的實際情況:泛民各派系與北京、隣近省、市政府,本地公務員及建制各派及商界的關係,不能否認是差了一點(很多時候,甚至可以說是各走極端,常常對着幹)]完全無改善過,試問中央哪會放心不加防範;盡量避免香港出現災難性狀況,及不斷的尷尬場面。况且大陸還要集中精力在她的各式各樣改革。

3. 希望泛民及各反對派能易地而處:試問哪有機構或企業,會願意把一個重要部門交托給完全不想跟高層相討、妥協,亦不願跟其他部門(即鄰近地區及中央部委)合作的人。這已經不是意識形態之爭,而是整個地區的實際運作問題。

4. 常常掛在少數人口中的:如没有這些人所堅持的方法去普選,社會便嚴重撕裂,無法管治等等,北京是不會buy這個說法。因為他們要對全國做的事,比這個重要得太多。

5. 希望泛民及各反對派,能好好收窄彼此間的距離,令整體氣氛,漸趨和洽,盡量減少敵對態度,相應增加溝通。

Regards,

George Luk



---------- 轉寄的郵件 ----------
寄件者: <doe@had.gov.hk>
日期: 2015612 上午11:49
主旨: Re: 給特區的信(158)-兜兜轉轉
收件者:

George Luk 先生:

謝謝你於2015611日的電郵。本處已備悉你的意見。 

東區民政事務專員
(
吳穎嫻  代行



附件(1):

---------- 轉寄的郵件 ----------
寄件者: George Luk
日期: 2011731日下午10:53
主旨: Re: 香港的長遠規劃(6)-互信
收件者: "Mr. Li Wei" <drc@drc.gov.cn>, "Mr. Donald Tsang" <ceo@ceo.gov.hk>
Messrs Li Wei/Donald Tsang

一小部份市民跟特區政府之間;泛民跟北京、特區及隣近省市政府之間;泛民跟建制派之間;泛民內部不同程度的激進派系之間;甚至人與人之間;似乎欠缺頗大的互信。沒有信任,各種討論或溝通,都是事倍功半。

基於理念不同,立場各異,處事方法,决定事情的先後緩急次序,各有自己的看法,誰也說服不了誰。各自還要做好對支持者的誠諾,媒體要令讀者、聽衆、觀眾,收聽、收看,每每用頗為極端的標題,恣意把事情推到極致,甚或訴諸過激行動,容易產生對抗。這並非大不子的事情,國外很多地方亦常有發生。

但問題在於,無論有多少長遠規劃,鴻圖大計,都因缺乏互信而被忽略,真是有點可惜!

規劃署及各有關部門推出的1984全港發展策略,1989港口及機場發展策略,1996全港發展策略檢討,2000香港二十一世紀可持續發展研究,2007香港2030 規劃遠景與策略。97回歸後,基於各年度粤港聯席會議,達致大珠江三角洲城鎮群協調發展規劃研究:

研究背景、目的及成果:-
• 粵港澳三地規劃主管部門首次共同開展的策略性區域規劃研究
• 於20063月正式啟動,研究成果已於200910月發佈
• 旨在於「一國兩制」的框架內,以前瞻性的視野考慮和分析大珠三角發展的機遇與挑戰,藉此提出可促進區域整體經濟發展、社會融合和環境改善的空間發展策略
• 研究提供了綱領性的策略建議,為三地政府制定區域合作及跨界政策的參考
• 總體目標:三地合力建設充滿生機與活力、具有全球競爭力的協調可持續的世界級城鎮群

請參考以下鏈結:「香港與珠三角規劃的互動和反思」研討會 http://www.prdbay.com/UploadFile/20010416170001.pdf

或較簡單,類似Powerpoint 的《環珠江口宜居灣區建設重點行動計劃》研究 2011/4/9公衆論壇滙報

裏面有很多值得參考的鏈結。

為何對政府或不同意見者,口誅筆伐,擊烈抗爭。為的都是要取得應有的權力;不是為了他們自己的個人利益,而是為了實踐香港的民主、公義,改善社會、民生;其實大家的目的都是殊途同歸。不需要將權力給與每個異見者,只要他們的部分領袖得到,他們大致都會覺得被尊重,被信任

香港政府公務員已經是極為受壓的一羣,還要應付泛珠三角與世界各地的協調;不放手,幾乎是mission impossible。况且有良好法治及制度下,三幾百個有抱負、有理想的泛民人仕加入政府及其他有决策權的諮詢機構,只會令管治更加理想,何樂而不為呢?希望能再加以考慮。

Best Regards,

George Luk


CEO <ceo@ceo.gov.hk> 2011714日上午10:28 寫道:
George Luk 先生:
74日致行政長官的電郵,我獲授權認收,內容備悉。

行政長官私人秘書
(姚一風 代行)



附件(2)
----- Original Message -----
From: annageor
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 1:44 AM
Subject: Focus Effort To Modernize China

Dear Editor,

You're requested to pass the following emails to President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao for their attention that citizens in the SARs're all patriotic and love their country as well as the SARs.

They have the chance to present their ideas and views differently and in many cases, from different angles & in different perspectives. And these're the SARs most valuable core values which can include and frankly discuss every subject/issue among people of different levels/races, but should be in a more collaborative and not an extremely confronting way as have pointed out in the proposal.

I understand there're too many people quite don't understand the challenges the Central and even some provincial/local governments're tackling. They also have too little knowledge on what're the priority of the overwhelmingly large number of difficult tasks, as a nation, have to face & handle.

Indeed, I learn a lot from the contents of the various Chinese websites for the up-to-the-minute information and the strategies of different level of government bodies. Indeed, some issues of the general public, patriotic, democratic, central govt., academics, socionomics which have been included in the various reports in the China.com.cn and related sites. Sometimes they're overlooked. Of course, nothing's complete without fraud, I suppose many of them're put up for sensible debate and suggestion.

As far as I know, nearly everyone here would like anything to have good things better and let's get our focused effort to keep up speed with our target in the most concerted way.

The SAR govt. have been pretty open to listen to different views ( although mostly to parties/people with equal openness and patience and not just confronting attitudes ) during the last 2 years only.Before that, I inclined that they preferred to listen to rosy words. As the economy's so bad that became the centre of all complaints. The moral of the civil servants're also at historical low that the focal point had been directed to a small number of high oficials and that's pretty unfair to them.

Dear President Hu/Premier Wen, the attachment's for your information, comments and hopfully we can commence our communication periodically as the fore-most one in China among the highest officials and a socionomist from the general public.

Regards,

George Luk



----- Original Message -----
From: "ceo" <ceo@ceo.gov.hk>
To: "annageor" <annageor@netvigator.com>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:14 AM
Subject: [Fwd: Proposal Re : Getting up Speed in "9+2"]

> Dear Mr Luk,
>
> I refer to your mail of 25.6.2004 to the Chief Executive and am
> authorized to acknowledge receipt of it.  Thank you for writing to us.
>
>
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
>
> (Herman Tse)


----- Original Message -----
From: annageor
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 4:24 PM
Subject: Proposal Re : Getting up Speed in "9+2"

Dear Mr. Tung,

I have to express my appreciation on our civil servants' endurance & efficiency during all these years of not too good time.

Indeed, I like the communication with them. Pls get upto full steam ahead in the 9+2 project and inject the necessary resources to fortify them in the handling of such a huge and overwhelming work.

The attachments're fyi and in case you have any comments, pls contact by return email.

Regards,

George Luk



----- Original Message -----
To: annageor
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Proposal RE: "9+2"

Dear George,

Many thanks for your note and would be very pleased to share with you on this subject again. I'll arrange  a mutually convenient time in due course.

Regards,

TK LEE
05/05/2004 13:28
       
              To:        "Lee TK" <tklee@cpu.gov.hk>
              cc:        "Lam K.K." <kklam@cpu.gov.hk>
"Lau SK" <siukailau@cpu.gov.hk>
              Subject:        Fw: Proposal RE: "9+2"

Dear TK,
 
Attached herewith a file on "Global Restructuring" from Stephen Roach, Beijing's good friend & M.D., Chief Economist of Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, who explains what actually happens when an economy changes structurally . He compares experiences of different countries and at the end he mentioned the influence on China and the Chinese economists.
 
Actually, during the past 8-10 years, HK 's experiencing such change. The downturn of the economy caused by such change and other international issues're out of HKSAR govt.'s control. Strong as the States, Germany & Japan, they all had and still have experience on their recessions. That's the point I think we need to have someone well-accepted to voice out and re-establish the Govt.'s image.
 
Furthermore, once the rate-hikes commence, the interest on the U.S.country-wide debts would be higher and higher and sooner than expected, will drag or halt its economy. So it's much better for China/HK to pick up asap before our export-oriented/led growth decelerate.
 
Looking forward to meet you again to offer different perspective in looking at & the follow-up on some macro- and micro- socionomic issues.
 
Regards,
 
George
 
----- Original Message -----
From: annageor
To: Lee TK
Cc: Lam K.K.
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 1:25 AM
Subject: Proposal RE: "9+2"

Dear TK,
 
I refer to our discussion yesterday morning in ur office and would like to summarise the major points for ur consideration, as follows:-
 
1.HKSAR Gov't have to accept there're necessary costs in order to properly commence/finish the "9+2" in order to achieve the major goals -
 
(a) successfully liaise, plan, formulate, coordinateand progress, complete all identifiable and workable projects within certain pre-determined criteria and time-frame, in priority
 
(b) to get the necessary cooperation among various regions/province/ministries in Beijing
 
(c) to get the full support of the whole SAR communities as well as neigboring communities, as the time resource is extremely limited and the extent extremely huge when comparing just to HKSAR.( approximates a EU but far backwards)
 
(d) Beijing would closely gauge HK's progress to rate our efficiency, flexibility as the overall results.
 
(e) how can we maintain free speech/democratic actions in a less confronting environment/situation. HK is still the biggest showcase for such action(s) which are our uniqueness, value and culture here ( just the same as many big international cities ) and shows the openness & ready to hear, discuss nature of Beijing central gov't.
 
(f) through the platform of CEPA & "9+2" would help the mainland in several areas such as
-creation of jobs for the ever-increasing umployment due to various reasons ;
-to tamper the problem of uneven income between rural and urbanized areas
-thru' better coordination/integration of proper work/services allocation, can lead higher disposable income thus vigorise consumer spending and also raise the % share of the service sector weighting in the total GDP.(more desired segregation of
sectors which contributes a more robust & sustainable economy)
 
(g)better counter-measures to combat inequality in benefits, opportunities and education, as well as
 
(h)the help to the SME which are considered the backbone of the economy and it's most resilient during the good & bad times.
 
  2. Personally, I think the relationship with the :
 
- the increasingly "hot" D-Democrats, and their supporters, the general public,
 
- the confronting P-Patriotics and their supporters,
 
- the neigbouring communnities' officials and the general public there,
 
- Beijing High officials
 
- and our own SAR Government officials, should be much upgraded so that focused effort can produce the results Beijing wants.
 
 
3. I notice that quite a large no. of latest publications edited/compiled with genuine bold ideas, in the China.org.cn-Big 5 edition and many Central Govt's think-tanks, specialized bodies' publications have the necessary blue prints for the modernization/sustainable development of China .
 
All these blue prints may very much suitable to be our guidelines with specific time-frames and priorities.
Hope these may provide the platform for our projects as well as conveying the ideas to the resisting or confronting groups.
 
4. As the projects're of such a magnitude that we don't even dream of, extremely huge no. of talents, in tens of thousands or even millions from local( civil servants and private sectors), overseas, neigbouring areas, the existing intellectuals and even some opposing parties members should be included. Recognition and Respect plus sharing of responsibilties & accountabilities always work wonders.
 
Also the existing gov't staff must need to proportionately enlarge, thru' employment or outsourcing or engagement of specialized consultants.( bearing in mind the time frame, the enormous magnitude, quality and the nature of the projects)
 
5.For the kind of work to be accomplished, the total project costs and the subsequent revenues bring along, I think it warrants to be far more agressive in our budget proposal and sometimes, even deficit spending can be considered.
 
In order to get the buy-in of the Democrats/Patriotics/Neighouring regional gov't official/ the general public and even Beijing, special Commission/ Dept/ Semi-gov't bogies and so on together with Image-building and PR/HR/other specialised Consultants should be established to help release the burden from our officials.
 
6. Besides 5. a large no. of reknown mediators , who're well-received scholars, intellectuals, professionals with neutral mindsets can be invited to follow up on the buy-in of the various non-conforming parties/general public by explaining the imminent situation and urgency of the projects. Such that the responsible SAR official may have ample time in planning and dealing their (9+2) works
 
7. During this difficult time in securing necessary funding for many highly desirable infrastucture projects may slow down the overal peogress of the project. To help arragement of such not only solve their problem, yet promote HK's status as a leader and will not cause much harm to the existing mainland banking system.
 
8. Educate HK citizens to take jobs in the "9+2" for transferring of knowledge/experience that can promote our influence to those regions & their people to accept our culture, value, integrity and other merits.
 
When the more than 400M of the people pick up to standard and quality of living quite close to us, I think the economy will be somewhere near that of EU and thus sustained prosperity can be assured for many decades.
 
Pls let me have your comments and where & when I can be of help.
 
Regards,
 
George.


附件(4)
---------- 轉寄的郵件 ----------
寄件者: <ceo@ceo.gov.hk>
日期: 2014916日 下午5:16
主旨: Re: 給特區的信(74)-誤會源於缺乏瞭解?
收件者: George Luk <gl2468@gmail.com>

George Luk
先生:

近日致行政長官的電郵收到,我獲授權認收,內容備悉。謝謝!
 
行政長官私人秘書
(
麥佩儀 代行


From:        George Luk
To:        "Mr. Li Wei" <drc@drc.gov.cn>, "Mr. C Y Leung" <ceo@ceo.gov.hk>,
Cc:        "Mr. Tsang Tak Sing" <sha@hab.gov.hk>, "Ms. TENG Yu Yan" <anneteng@had.gov.hk>, George1 Luk
Date:        08/09/2014 10:29 AM
Subject:        
給特區的信(74)-誤會源於缺乏瞭解? 


李偉先生/梁振英先生:

1. 不知有沒有理解錯誤,若2017特首選舉原地踏步的話,2016及2020的立法會選舉亦會維持現行制度,即功能組別選出的議員會起碼維持至2024,之後才有可能由普選產生(最樂觀的預期,是2022普選特首法案在新五步曲獲得順利通過之後的第一次立會選舉)?

2. 其實泛民不乏有理想有抱負的人士,只是大家(泛民及內地)因少溝通、接觸,對大陸的瞭解仍停留在廿多年前的想法,故彼此在思考方式及對情況的掌握,存在相當大的落差。

3. 加深理解可從多方面着手:如讓泛民多些到大陸各地訪問/參觀,接觸大陸的民衆甚至官員。另方面在網上閱讀各大智庫(官方、半官方、民間及中外高等學府合辦的) 。從中可以看到數以千計有名的中外學者,對大陸社會及各階層的批評和建議;有時他們對問題的深入探討及辛辣程度,港、台及海外人士也自歎不如。

4. 請參考以下2013年中國智庫報告,報告為上海社會科學院智庫研究中心的重大研究成果,左下角的連結: http://www.1think.com.cn/ViewArticle/Article_4ffa4a807c07bcf4b4ef9bfbd2a90c8b_20140305_15507.html   2013年中国智库报告(PDF)

5. 另外亦可參考2013 年全球智庫報告,由安邦集團外文團隊、東盟團隊、第一智庫團隊摘譯整理 : http://www.1think.com.cn/ViewArticle/Article_4ffa4a807c07bcf4b4ef9bfbd2a90c8b_20140305_15505.html
 2013年全球智库报告(中文)(PDF)   中有關大陸及涉外的報告及評論。

Regards,

George Luk


<如有興趣觀看之前的電郵,請前往連結: http://jet2468.blogspot.hk/ 。網誌內容主要是希望大家能對大陸、香港及週邊地區人士及政府多點理解/體諒,並以一般普羅大眾的觀點,加以進言。>

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給特區的信(163)-朋友傳來關於「甩轆」事件的網上討論





---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: George Luk 
Date: 2015-06-27 19:03 GMT+08:00
Subject: 給特區的信(163)-朋友傳來關於「甩轆」事件的網上討論
To: "Mr. Li Wei" <drc@drc.gov.cn>, "Mr. C Y Leung" <ceo@ceo.gov.hk>
Cc: "hd@1823.gov.hk" <hd@1823.gov.hk>, "Mr. Anthony Cheung" <sthoffice@thb.gov.hk>, George1 Luk 

李偉先生/梁振英先生:

1. 以下是朋友傳來關於「甩轆」及近期的另三則事件的「雅虎網上」討論,特別是來自Cletus君的評論,相信「他是比較傾向建制的人」,仍可作為某些市民的看法。他討論時頗有節有理,是值得一看的民間觀點。

2. 其實過去近廿年時間,中央及特區政府,對泛民及建制內的「壞孩子」相當包容,但礙於大局,及香港能發揮到的「特殊作用」,相對極為容忍;其間主要的親建制人士亦發揮到相當大的作用。

3. 為着日後的合作,非常同意無必要「捉鬼」,免引起無謂的猜疑。同時希望北京、特區及隣近省市政府可以伸出「橄欖枝」,增加與泛民人士接觸、溝通以建立互信;當然「回鄉証」是必然的起步點。

4. 經此「否決政改及之前的佔領行動」一役,希望港人能在爭取民主的同時,可以多點考慮社會民生及經濟發展等事項:
 A) WhatsApp對話 揭建制甩轆亂指揮  --連結(太陽報 – 2015625日星期四上午6:02
1aCletus  •  26小時前
Have anyone seen or heard that discussions with various ideas that are fully planned and organized?
Have you ever come across any of your conversation and discussions that are well organized and planned?
You talk, he talks. You suggest, she suggests.... are these being normal in our daily activities?
1bAnd what makes WhatsApp contain all conversations between members? What are being stolen here are only part of the discussions between members. Base on conversation here and there, how can this reporter interpret what are actually going on? Only these few conversation scripts become all conversations, verbal and mobile... ?
1cThis report intentionally mislead readers into believing that 建制派內部訊息極度混亂,Picking messages here and there is of course appear 混亂
1dDid they pick up WhatsApp conversation between 泛民? No? Why not?
Are they spying against 
建制派? Sure, they are.
Have they violated privacy? Yes they have.
Should people use WhatsApp for political conversation, absolutely not. 
Use Blackberry!
Are these reporter and editor(s) being Idiot! Looks like it.
毒報

2Lavis  •  25小時前
群組唔係一對一當然可以見晒所有對話

3YiYi  •  25小時前 
東方 with "Very biased reporting"? Sorry I can't stop laughing !

4Sandyrosyblue  •  2小時前 
Every news report is biased. It is naïve to assume news report are not biased. The political naïve HongKongese are fooled by the biased media in Hong Kong all these years.

5YiYi  •  24小時前 
Yea, agree with Sandy. Using a news report with very biased reporting as a point is really naive.

6Lawrence  •  24小時前 
東方 with "Very biased reporting" .... True, becos they are 建制報

7aCletus  •24小時前
Read the news. Watch the news from various channels as many as we can; keeping in mind that we cannot trust totally on all these news reports. Refrain from making conclusions too early.
7bIn this case, even if the report is true, it does not mean it is a total collapse of their communication, because it is discussion among many members, each of them of course has his or her own opinion. It is NORMAL! The problem is not in discussions on how to make the best of the situation to make the political reform went through.
(7cThe problems lies on their execution. And the problem of execution also lies on the fact that (某某等) intentionally did not co-operate,
It is foolish to use insecure WhatsApp. It is also foolish to trust
(某君). It is indeed foolish for politicians not to have any security in mind.

7dWe all should realize that politics is 臭坑. And 臭坑出臭草。 Many politicians become 臭草 when they are in that environment for long. And of course some are born 臭草, who like to stay in 臭坑. The environment lead them to become self-serving. They have to play tricks. They have to use all means to win, because winning is everything in politics.7eNow, with this understanding, and with the understanding that the livelihood issues(民生議題?) in Hong Kong are the most important for the prosperity future of this region, should we insist a very loose general election for the job of Chief of HKSAR? The demand from pan-democrats in Hong Kong is both unrealistic and damaging. The form of democracy they demand is the worst form of democracy that no country on earth is using it..

8YiYi  •  123小時前 
I get your point, China is the best.

9WhiteKnight  •  118小時前 
rubbish English!洋奴!

10Kwan  •  19小時前
Although what Cletus said is a little weird, I get where he's coming from. And it is true that news are very biased here, but very few keep in mind that. I am still happy to see like Cletus around. No comment on your other points. As for WhiteKnight... how do you call someone 洋奴 when half of what you just wrote is in English, even your name...We have too many people like this on yahoo..

11Newbarn  •  19小時前 
放煙霧彈最叻。

12Cletus  •  13小時前 
If one really wants to discuss, raise the point that you do not agree. Then we can improve from discussion.
"rubbish English", "
洋奴", are nasty words that shows you are out of reasons, that you have to resort to name calling.
I would like to see which point you do not agree in my original comment in here.

13Kwan  •  11小時前
Yea, I agree, again, these ppl are here for fights not for discussions..
As for your last point, it is not like I disagree with you but heres my thoughts:
Are they spying against 
建制派? Sure, they are. - so what conclusion can you make from this?
Have they violated privacy? Yes they have. - Uh, its not like you're wrong, but yea blame the govt for they have committed no crime.
Should people use WhatsApp for political conversation, absolutely not. Use Blackberry! - For a second I thought you were comparing an app with a phone haha.

B公民黨愈來愈激 骨幹紛跳船  --連結(太陽報 – 2015623日星期二上午5:30
1Cletus  •  3天前 
It is indeed heart broken when one realizes that the dream that one has invested so much effort on, finally get broken for good.
If this is indeed his dream: a moderate democratic party that can communicate with Chinese government for the people of Hong Kong, he deserve lots of respect.

2Eddie  •  29小時前 
Let us wait and see how much he will be able to accomplish in the coming future.

3Patrick  •  12小時前 
Unfortunately, given the unforgiving nature of the Chinese Communist Party, Tong's action and stance would only be seen as a collaborationist or defeatist.

4Cletus  •  14小時前 
Is this only your view, not a view from Chinese government Should you assume others not as intellectual as you are

C羅范斥「荒謬絕倫」  --連結(太陽報 – 2015626日星期五上午5:40
1aCletus  •  13小時前 
A group of straight forward politicians should not try to play tricky games. They want to try whatever they know of to get the bill through. But they are not that kind of people. The intention is good. But the execution is terrible.
Be yourself, you are on the right track, Why should you push things beyond your limit. You at least are the ones who can differentiate good from bad. much better than your political rivals who know nothing but against everything from Governments.
1bThose compatriots who criticize you openly are not better than you are. Partners are supposed to support each other, helping others when making mistakes.1cRemorse no more. Keep low profile and continue to work hard and do your jobs. People have short memory. They will get tired and bored to continue laying blames on you. This is not forgotten only if you try to fight and defend continuously. Yes, mistakes were made. And who on earth do not make mistakes. Your work in the coming months will prove that you are good members in the legislature.

D田北辰指有人披露建制派短訊群組內容事件嚴重  --連結(商業電台 – 2015625日星期四下午9:48
1aCletus  •  110小時前 
A lesson to be learnt. The political world is very dirty. The consequence for individual participant can also be very serious.1bWhen we talk about general election for government major posts without screening, one person one vote for nomination, and for selection, we are talking about letting a dirty world to develop and to evolve into an authority group without control. We are talking about the enlarged risks of having destructive elements to govern our region.1cIt is not a matter of democracy anymore.

Regards,

George Luk



---------- 轉寄的郵件 ----------
寄件者: <hd@1823.gov.hk>
日期: 2015627日 上午10:45
主旨: 給特區的信(162)-香港可成中國崛起推手:荷英美模式 (案編號:2-1103933477)
收件者:

先生/女士:
給特區的信(162)-香港可成中國崛起推手:荷英美模式 (案編號:2-1103933477)
謝謝你於20150626日給1823 的的電郵。

由於你已直接電郵有關問題予負責的政府部門跟進,相信有關政府部門會盡快回覆你。

如有任何查詢,歡迎與我們的職員聯絡。
1823客戶服務主任
梁施惠謹覆
2015
0627


<如有興趣觀看之前的電郵,請前往連結: http://jet2468.blogspot.hk/ 。網誌內容主要是希望大家能對大陸、香港及週邊地區人士及政府多點理解/體諒,並以一般普羅大眾的觀點,加以進言。>

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